The Loss of a Sports Fan to NASCAR

Yes, NASCAR is the best SPORT in this country. Consider this, May 29th is the Coca Cola 600 at LOWES Motorspeedway. The drivers are in there cars for about 4 hours or more, without bathroom breaks or food. Stickball sports, Hoop and heaven forbid , the one so called sport, football, which is a waste of time, money and effort, take their breaks on the bench every time they screw up or they hurt their little finger. BOO HOO. NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR What a SPORT.

So, Mr. Chalifoux, do you think YOU could sit in a race car with 120 degree temps for 4-6 hours and have no athletic ability? The drivers all train vigorously to have the ability, stamina, and conditioning necessary to be able to do their jobs.

Your argument about going out and “playing NASCAR” doesn’t hold water either. You CAN go out and race on a go-kart track, or race a sports car in a parking lot (autocross), or run your truck through a mud bog. Those are called “Motorsports”, and NASCAR is also a “motorsport”. There are ample opportunities for amateur drivers to compete and “play”.

Do I think I could sit in a car for 4-6 hours and have no athletic ability? Of course. Now, I don’t know that I would have the endurance to do that, but I do know that if I could, it would have nothing to do with athletic ability. Because its hot and hard to do its a sport?

Drivers could be in good shape, but that doesn’t make NASCAR a sport. What about video gamers? If they played in a hot, small room for several hours, would that make video games a sport?

I’m not debating that its a great spectator event and that its a hard thing to do, I’m just saying it isn’t a sport.

And you can’t go outside and play NASCAR. Correct me if I’m wrong, but dpesnt the SC in NASCAR stand for Stock Car? Stock cars are not widely sold, most people can’t go out and buy a stock car and start racing. I don’t know why driving your truck through some mud would be considered playing a sport, but to each his own.

Sure you can go outside and “play” NASCAR! You go to a local dirt track with an old car with the interior removed and Roll Bars and race with the other drivers. When you go outside and play football, you’re not playing NFL-your only playing football. When you go and race, you’re not playing NASCAR, y ou’re racing. POOR MISINFORMED CITY BOYS

Seven guys change 4 tires and deliver 22 gallons of fuel less than 13 seconds and it’s not a “Sport”? It’s a far better example of teamwork (read: Sport) than any run/jump/throw “Game” IMO -Racing is all about TEAMWORK (again, read: Sport)!

The driver is just a part of a Team, much like a quarterback or running back in Football. Each member of a NASCAR team has an important role in the teams success, just like any other sport. If one team member fails at his assignment, the whole team will be affected. There is much more to it than just “sitting in a car and driving for hours”. Please take the time to learn a little about racing before forming an opinion. - Thanks and keep up the good work!

How NARROW MINDED CAN YOU BE??? I would love to see any typical “athlete” endure what a nascar driver endures for 3-4 hours- the G-forces, the extreme heat in the car- so extreme they loose 6-8 pounds a race…OH WAIT- most of those “Sports Heros” can’t cause they are HOPPED UP ON ROIDS or drugs or are too busy beating their girlfriends or wives or raping random women they pick up.
If your friend Joe has any smarts..He would GO “PLAY” Nascar with the quote” Subway worker that assembles my lunch every day”
CAUSE YOU MY FRIEND ARE A MORON

So by what criteria is baseball a sport, then.

Mark,

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I will try to address the points that were made.

FIrst, Greta, the difference between baseball and nascar is baseball requires a great deal of athletic ability.

Ken- It takes more than a little work to go outside and play nascar according to you, but I can buy that. Obviously its a little easier to go out back and toss a baseball or football, but technically, I guess you can go out and play nascar. Good point

Mark- I understand that racing requires a great deal of teamwork, but a lot of things in life do. Its a great feat that 22 gallons of fuel can be put in a car while the four tires are changed all in less than 13 seconds, but that doesn’t make it a sport. It takes a lot of teamwork for lumberjacks to clear a forest, but I wouldn’t call them athletes.

Lisa- I think I liked your response the best. You start by calling me narrow-minded and then you make a sweeping generalization about how all sports heros are raping women, beating their wives, doing steroids, and doing other drugs. Classic

Second- the subway worker who assembles my lunch every day is not a nascar fan. If he was, Id have to go to a new subway…(for those who can’t pick up on sarcasm, that was a JOKE).

Lastly, I think some people missed the point. I argued that NASCAR isn’t a sport. That being said, I certainly respect the competition, the skill the drivers have, the loyalty of the fans, and the whole experience. Driving a race car in that enviorment is not an easy thing to do by any means. Its a great spectator event and I plan to take in my first race sometime this year. I cant completely write it off without seeing a race in person, that would be narrow-minded. I respect NASCAR and its fans, it’s just not a sport.

Mr. Chalifoux,

I think your question is an interesting one, only from the standpoint that it reflects the fanaticism that people experience about their choice of sports fandom.

First, let’s define things and let’s include your example of video gaming. The dictionary defines sport in such a way that yes, a video game could be considered a sport (courtesy of answers.com: “Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.”) and video gamers be “athletes” (again answers.com: “A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.”)

Certainly developing hand-eye coordination, the ability to react very quickly to visual/audio inputs and have endurance to stare at screens fits the above definitions, as does gaming competitions.

All that aside, if we take the definitions at their meaning, then yes, stock car racing and stock car drivers are athletes.

I think the crux of the matter is your opinion into what is considered an “athlete” and “sport” - you don’t think a stock car driver falls into that. You’d also be surprised at how many other people think the current NASCAR is not “TRUE” NASCAR, or how many people think that the designated hitter is still an aberration.

You know what? That’s fine with me, that not everyone appreciates the ability it takes to be a race car driver. I certainly didn’t, but having put myself out on the track has given me a completely different and new appreciation for what those guys do.

Here’s why. Take a baseball pitcher. He has to have the arm strength to throw the ball, consistently, and for quite a number of repetitions. He has to be able to have hand/eye coordination to aim and throw the ball. He has to be able to use strategy for the pitches he throws against various hitters. He has to be in some sort of decent shape to be successful.

Take a race car driver. He has to have the strength and endurance to wrestle a barely-in-control vehicle around a track (whether it’s an oval or road course). He has to have the hand/eye coordination to coordinate his activities: shifting, steering, braking. He has to have strategy in mind of how to approach a corner, a track and the various other drivers. He has to be in some sort of decent shape to participate and be able to endure the bouncing, banging, g-forces, sudden stops.

Both pitcher and driver have to obey and play under certain rules in an organized fashion. And certainly both have to train, learn, grow and improve their abilities to do these things.

Now that may not fit with your classical definition of an athlete, but it is accurate.

To address your second point, that someone cannot become a “driver” as easily as they can play a pickup baseball game, well, that’s like saying ice hockey isn’t a sport because you can’t always go out to your local pond and play. Quite simply, some sports need specific arenas to play (like tennis, or golf, or swimming) - this is true for motorsports.

Additionally, I encourage you to go visit the SCCA (http://www.scca.org) and NASA (http://www.nasaproracing.com/aboutnasa/) websites - you would be AMAZED at how easy it is for the ordinary “Joe” to become involved in motorsports.

I speak from personal experience. Last year, this time, I was a spectator, not even daring to dream that I could race. Then I discovered four cylinder stock car racing. Yes, stock car racing. At a great many tracks, you will find divisions where people can bring in “bombers”, “junkers” or the retired “grannymobile” and sling it around a track with a minimal amount of safety equipment or preparation. You can also go to large parking lots and often find “autocrossers” working their day cars around a traffic cone course.

When I did the research, I was amazed at just how much there is to racing.

Here’s a final thought - the guys from the top of the heap - the F1 drivers, the NASCAR drivers, the Indy drivers down to the Friday night short track drivers like myself - we do love the fans, we do love the sport and we do love what we do. I’m sorry that you may not appreciate or enjoy what we do, but I hope that some exposure will include you into what will be a completely pleasurable “death”. *smile* Perhaps what you’ll see is an opening of your eyes.

I would love to talk to you further about it - that is, if you’re willing. But, like anything else, it really does come down to opinion.

PS. Your friend has great taste. Rusty Wallace is probably one of the best in NASCAR and his retirement this year is going to be a sad thing.

PSS. If you really want the lowdown on stock car racing, not only should you visit a NASCAR race, but you should also find and visit a local asphalt and/or dirt track. There you will find the roots, heart and soul of stock car racing in America.

Regards,
Michael Shorten
S&T Racing (http://www.sandtracing.com) - Mundelein, IL

Michael,

Thanks for the feedback. Let me clear one thing up right away. I certainly respect and appreciate the skills and talents of racecar drivers. I also think I could enjoy what you do, I plan to go to a race sometime this year and would like to talk to you about the whole local track thing.

As far as the hockey thing goes, you can go outside with a few sticks and a tennis ball and play hockey, as I did many times in my youth.

However, the arguments you put forward were well thought out and the best I’ve seen. You made a great argument, and I’d like to respond to a few of your points, but I don ‘t know that this is the forum for it.

Drop me an email sometime, [email protected]

I’d like to talk to you more about it, maybe do a joint piece with you or something along those lines. I think I might like to see S&T racing compete sometime. Drop me an email

Mark

Oh God. Your hysterical. My bet is that this article was purely only to produce a reaction to your blah, blah, blah column.

Your right. It’s not a sport. It’s a way of life.

Yes, Nascar racing is a sport and requires athletic ability. You have already had discussions on the teamwork required by the pit crews and drivers, but fail to recognize the drivers as athletes. They have endurance. The drivers must endure hours of high heat while in a race. Driving a race car is not the same as you riding down the freeway at 70MPH. They endure extreme g forces while driving during the race, and (like baseball players) have exceptional eye, hand, foot & brain coordination during the race. They can’t let up between pitches as in baseball or between downs as in football. They have to concentrate the whole race. Upper body strength is required to muscle a 3400 pound car around the track even if they do have power steering these days. Power streering failures are common & the driver has to keep going. Folks that aren’t familiar with NASCAR believ it isn’t a sport until they attend their 1st race. It takes an exceptional athlete with stamina, eye hand coordination and strength to race at the NASCAR Nextel Cup level.

To paraphrase Ernest Hemingway: The only true sports are skydiving, bullfighting and auto racing; everything else is just a game.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4243400

No Doubt NASCAR Drivers are Athletes
By Allen Bestwick

Should stock car drivers be considered athletes? Some people say no — most often supporting their view by pointing out that many of us drive cars and don’t find it physically challenging. However, racing a stock car with an average interior temperature of 120 degrees for 500 laps at speeds that can border on 200 mph takes superior hand-eye coordination, depth perception, courage and physical fitness. Those factors lead me to give a resounding endorsement of stock car drivers as athletes.

SUPPORTING
MY VIEW
The American Heritage Dictionary’s definition of an athlete is “a person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.”

Let’s take apart that definition and scrutinize stock car drivers to see whether they fit the bill as athletes.

“A person possessing the natural or acquired traits,…”
Just as Barry Bonds possesses a natural talent for hitting a baseball and has refined that talent with experience, NASCAR’s top-level drivers have natural or acquired traits for racing cars that most of us are without.

Those traits include a lack of fear, an exceptional feel for controlling a car at excessive speeds, and exceptional hand-eye coordination.

These skills have been refined through their years of racing, beginning with go-karts as children and advancing up the different levels of the sport.

“…such as strength, agility and endurance necessary for physical exercise,…”
While I was never really good at physics in school, I have driven a stock car on a few occasions and I can vouch for the physical demands on one’s body when racing.

A 3,400-pound stock car doesn’t drive like your SUV, it’s a brute.

At the speeds today’s stock cars attain, a driver is constantly wrestling the machine.

The moments he’s not pushing or pulling against the wheel and working the pedals are brief.

While all that is going on, the G-forces of the cornering speed are pulling a drivers’ head, torso and legs to the right — the opposite way the rest of him is trying to go.

His ribs and shoulders are jamming against his seat and restraints and that’s a feeling like taking a hit from a linebacker every minute for a few hours.

In racing schools like the Richard Petty Driving Experience, most people are sweating and have an elevated heart rate after just a few laps of driving.

A stock car driver must be able to handle these forces and stresses over three to four hours of competition.

That requires exceptional conditioning and a special level of endurance that few of us can boast.

The conditions compound the physical requirements on a driver.

He will be in a car designed for speed, not comfort.

The cockpit temperature will rise to over 120 degrees, and to reduce any aerodynamic “drag,” the car is designed to make air flow around it, but not inside it.

This puts a premium on cardiovascular fitness.

A driver must be able to process oxygen into his blood more efficiently than most of us and also must be able to do it in heated, stressful conditions for hours at a time.

“…especially those performed in competitive contexts.”

There can be no question drivers are by nature competitive.

Like other elite athletes, their desire to win and rise to the top of their field is a prime motivation in their daily lives.

All of the training, endless testing and practicing are done for one moment: the glorious one when victory in a race is achieved.

TRAINING COMPARISONS
Most drivers are on a vigorous training program.

Former Winston Cup champion Dale Jarrett trains six days per week to prepare for the competition of racing.

“I lift weights and do cardio Monday through Friday, then Saturday do an additional day of cardio” says Jarrett, who like many of his racing peers, was an outstanding multi-sport athlete in high school.

Jarrett was a quarterback, forward in basketball, shortstop and outstanding golfer.

Jarrett is a friend and business partner of quarterback Brett Favre of the Green Bay Packers and he has compared training notes with the future NFL Hall-of-Famer.

Jarrett says he and Favre seek different results from their workouts, noting that for racing he needs his back to be strong for the time he spends in the driver’s seat, while Favre needs for his legs to be strong.

Favre is careful about how his arm is worked out while Jarrett’s concern for cardio conditioning is a top priority.

MENTAL STRENGTH ALSO NEEDED
One often overlooked aspect of racing a stock car is the relentless need for concentration at a high level.

A basketball or football player needs to be mentally sharp to execute plays and react to game situations quickly and effectively.

A stock car driver can never let his concentration waver.

One mental lapse — be it a missed braking point or daydream-induced “drift” of lanes — can cause a crash, which will likely result in hitting a wall at well over 100 mph — not a safe or pleasant experience.

DIFFERENT DEMANDS IN A DIFFERENT ERA
In NASCAR’s earlier years, especially the 1950s and 1960s, drivers were not considered very athletic, and I would agree with that assessment.

Today, however, times have changed and now it’s a different story.

This generation of stock car racers compares very favorably with elite athletes in other sports.

These drivers may not run a 4.5 in the 40-yard dash or be able to hit 50 home runs in a baseball season, but could a baseball player or a football player last 500 miles in a race car?

The strength, agility and endurance demonstrated by stock car drivers in a competitive context are without question of exceptional quality and prove their athleticism.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Angie- I’m not the type of writer to do stuff just for a reaction. I write what I believe and I believe NASCAR is not a sport. Thanks for reading the blah blah blah column, Ill try to do better next time.

I like the way of life thing, you should look into making a T-shirt out of that

Mike- I understand what you are trying to say, but I just don’t buy that. What about someone like Evel Kenevel, would his stunts be considered a sport? After all, he needs strength, hand-eye coordination, etc. etc. to pull of what he did.

Just because its hot in the car and they drive for a long time does not make it a sport. Would the strongman competition be a sport? If you think so, then NASCAR can be too. I dont think it is.

Melinda- That’s a good article, but I still disagree. NASCAR doesn’t require any athletic ability. It’s a tough thing to do, don’t get me wrong. And you can’t do it without lots of training, sure, but its not a sport.

Natural talents? “Those traits include a lack of fear, an exceptional feel for controlling a car at excessive speeds, and exceptional hand-eye coordination.” Again, Evel Kenevel would fit in that perfectly, and I don’t consider what he does to be a sport.

I bet there are some athletes who race, but that doesnt make it a sport

You wrote: “NASCAR doesn’t require any athletic ability.”

Hmmm….you think that driving a race car requires no athletic ability? Just goes to show that you know absolutely NOTHING about driving a race car. I am sure that driving a race car at 180+ MPH requires at least as much athletic ability as swinging a bat.

Drivers face many health risks in cockpit

By Todd D. Burlage

The Journal Gazette

INDIANAPOLIS - Mark Martin climbed out his race car at Martinsville Speedway early this season, peeled off his helmet and tried his best to clear the cobwebs.
Through instinct alone, Martin somehow completed all but one of the 500 laps in the Virginia 500 and finished 17th. But now he was having trouble just seeing straight.

The pounding headache, the nausea - it wasn’t the first time Martin had a bout with carbon monoxide poisoning, but it was one of his worst.

“Oh my God, you feel that,” said Martin, looking back to that difficult April day. “You think it’s going to kill you.”

And that’s why journeyman NASCAR driver Rick Mast recently decided to hang up his helmet two decades into his career and just days after he was diagnosed with chronic carbon monoxide poisoning. The drivers simply call it “getting gassed.”

“If you could imagine the worst hangover that you’ve ever had in your life. That’s what it’s like,” Mast said. “Your head is pounding. You’re dizzy all the time. That’s what I lived before I got out of the race car seven days a week. That’s your body telling you something is wrong.”

Technology and intervention have somewhat improved conditions for drivers. Carbon monoxide filters will soon be standard equipment, and the ventilation system that pumps cool, clean air into the driver’s helmets has lessened the potential for poisoning.

But that’s not to say it still doesn’t happen.

“At short tracks like Bristol, Martinsville or Richmond, it’s a real problem,” said Martin, explaining that when a fender gets crumbled or sheet metal peeled, gas seeps into the cockpit. “All three of those are the highest carbon monoxide poisoning tracks based on testing.”

In the short term, the human body can fight off certain levels of carbon monoxide. But prolonged exposure can lead to persistent headaches, chronic fatigue and lifelong breathing problems.

“After all the races, it was always common to have a headache,” said driver Ricky Rudd, a Winston Cup veteran of 27 years and almost 800 races. “I just thought it was from all the stress. I guess we weren’t smart enough to figure out it might be carbon monoxide.”

And while carbon monoxide is the most dangerous physical challenge drivers face each week, it’s not the only one.

Intense heat, dehydration and the inevitable fatigue of trying to throw a 3,400-pound car through high-speed corners all make for a grueling day at the office.

NASCAR drivers can reach 4 G-forces at a high-speed, high-banked track like Talladega or Daytona. That’s the equivalent 600 pounds of pull for a 150-pound driver.

During a bad crash, drivers can experience upward of 50 Gs, or 7,500 pounds of force, during that split second of impact.

“These cars are 3,400 pounds, and there’s a lot of turning of the wheel all day long,” said driver Elliott Sadler, one of the most fit drivers in the circuit. “We’re strapped down tight, and the only movement is in your upper body. I don’t think people understand how tough it is.”

Sadler admits that he didn’t even understand the physical demands when he made the jump from the 200- and 300-mile races in the Busch Series to the 400- and 500-mile races of Winston Cup, even though he lettered in six sports in high school.

“I would be exhausted and not very good the last 100 miles,” he said of his rookie season in 1999. Sadler has since added 30 pounds of muscle and a wealth of upper-body strength. “I knew something had to change.”

If 42 competitors, carbon monoxide and fatigue aren’t enough to battle each week, cockpits inside the cars can often climb to more than 120 degrees during a race.

In the chase for aerodynamic perfection, no air is allowed in the car other than through a tube in the helmet.

Wrap the driver in a five-layer cocoon called a fire suit, and it’s no surprise a guy like Ricky Craven can lose about a quart of sweat each hour in the car.

“These cars just haven’t gotten to the point where we can overcome that,” said Craven, who tries to prepare for the heat by wearing three sweatshirts and jogging five miles on a treadmill every day he is home. “I had races where I’ve felt like I was just done - not during the event but on the way home - a terrible headache and just really fatigued.”

As the longtime coach of the National Football League’s Washington Redskins, car owner Joe Gibbs knows a little something about the physical demands of sport.

So, coach, are these drivers athletes?

“That’s hand-eye coordination, depth perception and guts,” Gibbs said. “A driver who can race with three inches between himself and other drivers, when there are 40 other cars on the track, and instinctively make a decision that keeps him from wrecking is definitely an athlete.”

1- Hitting a baseball takes much more athletic ability than driving in a race. I know driving in a race is hard, but most people could be trained to do it. You need god-given ability to hit a Randy Johnson fastball

2-Facing health risks doesn’t make it a sport. What about the strongman competition and Evel Knievel? They both face health risks in their physical competition, but its not a sport.

So Mark, in your opinion, are guys like Travis Pastrana, Carey Hart, and Bubba Stewart athletes? Do you consider moto-x a sport?

You wrote: “Hitting a baseball takes much more athletic ability than driving in a race. I know driving in a race is hard, but most people could be trained to do it. You need god-given ability to hit a Randy Johnson fastball”

While it is true that not every baseball player has the ability to hit a Randy Johnson fastball. However, a person does not have to play baseball in the MLB to be considered an athlete. There are thousands of athletes that participate in baseball at the little league, high school, college, and minor league level. Since 99.9% of these players don’t have the ability to hit a RJ fastball, are they not considered athletes in your eyes?

Furthermore, while it is true that people can be trained to drive a race car. However, not many people will have the skill and ability to drive a race car professionally (NASCAR, IRL, etc). ….kind of like not many baseball players will have the skill to hit a Randy Johnson fastball.

Why don’t we take a look at the athletic ability of a designated hitter in baseball.

The baseball player must possess great hand-eye coordination and a natural talent for hitting a baseball. During a 9 inning game, the DH may get 3-4 at bats. If he gets a hit, he gets to run the bases. When not at bat and/or on base, the DH gets to exert much energy while sitting on the bench eating sunflower seeds. Thus, besides a few swing of the bat and an occasional sprint to the bases, the DH gets to sit on his a$$ during most of the game.

Gee, that sure requires more athletic ability than driving a 3400 lbs race car at 180+ MPH while experiencing up to 4 G’s for 3 to 4 hours of non stop competition.

Auto Racing (not just NASCAR) is a SPORT. Baseball, Football, etc…(although I enjoy them as well, as much as a die hard Cub fan can) they are all just GAMES

sport ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spôrt, sprt)
n.

1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
1. b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.

Going off this definition, it looks to me like there are a lot of “sports” out there. It must be frustrating to be as narrow-minded as you are. Widen your horizons..

you don’t believe Nascar isn’t a sport and the drivers and crews aren’t athletes? no offience sir but I believe it does take a a large amount of stamina and an ability to drive in temperature of over 100 or so degrees in hot weather wearing a helment,firesuit, gloves racing shoes HANS device etc. and you do happen to lose some weight while you do race at these temperatures with no a/c for you to control. it takes a lot of focus and effort to drive a race car. and it takes a lot of pratice and prepration for the pit crews to make good pit stops. what does football require? in my opinon it is just a bunch of juiced up jocks just hitting each other for a ball to run across one side of the field to the other.
You need to be a little more open minded of different sports out there and actually strap your self in a race car for three or four hours and see how you do after that.

I bet if the cars pushed a little rubber ball around the track and scored points for each time they were the car to hit it across the start/finish line that would make it a sport. It would be at least as rigorous as polo. So, basically, if it has a ball it is a sport and if it doesn’t it is not a sport.

Mr. Chalifoux,
Regarding your comments on how NASCAR is not a sport.

My father races at a local track. He puts much time and effort into building his racecar, and in the upkeep of it during the season. It sickens me to hear you say that racing is not a sport. These drivers put their lives on the line everytime they hop into that car. The slightest thing could go wrong. Dale Earnhardt for example. I am having a hard time seeing your point of view. Like my mother always says, you know what the difference between other sports and racing is? Football, baseball etc only take one ball, racing takes two. Remember, the next time you decide to insult this sport, that you are insulting every person who has a family member that races, and you are insulting a multi billion dollar operation. Honestly, sir, I dont give a d*mn what you might think about my favorite sport, you have your opinion, I will have mine. I cant change that. Im not going to try. But you need to realize that racing takes more mental and physical strength and intelligence than you will ever be able to muster out of your pea sized remedial thinking brain.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Carrie- I don’t consider moto-x a sport.

Randy- The DH in baseball is a joke. Those guys still have some talent though as no one makes it to the MLB as a DH.

When I made the Randy Johnson comment I was referring to the pros. If drivers are so athletic, tell me, who would win a game of 1 on 1 in basketball…Chad Johnson or Jeff Gordon?

David- I guess if you want to look at it that way, but that opens up another debate

Stephani- well said. I’m glad you didn’t take it personally

Craig- If you want to use the literal definition of sport, then video games and things of that nature are sports as well. If you think thats true then so be it. This has nothing to do with me being narrow minded, I’m not discounting how difficult NASCAR is or how great it is by saying its not a sport.

Patrick- Are you trying to push the argument that NASCAR is a sport and football isnt? Look, I understand that a rac e is physically demanding, but so is the strongman competition and daredevil acts like Evel Knievel, but I don’t consider what they do to be sports.

Gary- I think you have a great game there, you should invent that sport. That would make it a sport definitely… (I would only say that because I’m sure it would be entertaining)

Bottom line, a sport doesnt necessarily need a ball

Lizz-

I have a lot of respect for what your father does and I am not discounting racing in any way when I say its not a sport. I understand the physical demands and the risk the drivers face everytime. I can appreciate the pyhsical and mental demands, I really can. I don’t intend to insult it by saying its not a sport, that’s just what I believe. Then again, what do I know with my remedial, pea-sized brain

Just curious, isn’t the Strongman competition a weightlifting competition? Last time I checked, weightlifting was recognized worldide as an OLYMPIC sport.

Is there a Mark Chalifoux dictionary that I am not aware of? Just b/c you don’t agree with the literal definition sport does not change the fact that motorsports does fit into the definition of a sport.

By the way, according to Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary (11th ed.), MOTOCROSS is defined as …”the SPORT of engaging in motorcross races”

Kaye- You are right, by definition, NASCAR is a sport. Of course, then you have to accept things like fishing, paintball, and maybe even video games as sport.

As far as the MC dictionary goes, there is one you are unaware of. I’m currently working on publishing my own dictionary, and right now I’m on the B’s. Look for it around Christmas 2023

Besides the pitchers don’t baseball players spend the majority of the game either on the bench or standing around. That doesn’t take a great deal of physical ability. If you disect any sport down to it’s simplest terms they all are just silly games. Why tear down other’s likes and dislikes? If we all were alike we’d live in a pretty boring world. I take it as a compliment to segregate racing from other so called “sports”. Its a sport of real people not egotistical jocks.

Scott- Playing baseball takes a great deal of athletic ability, but the endurance part of baseball comes in playing games nearly every day. Its true that they do a lot of standing around, but you could say that about any sport (as far as benchwarmers and special teams players in football go).

I don’t mean to tear down anyones likes or dislikes, I definitely respect NASCAR and its fan base. I appreciate the physical and mental demands put on drivers I just don’t think its a sport because it doesnt take a great deal of athletic ability and because it isn’t entirely human operated and human powered. I wouldn’t call horse racing or fishing a sport either.

Also, you can find down to earth guys in every sport. Granted, Racing and Hockey may have a higher percentage, but I dont know that you can write off everyone.

Thanks for the response

Mark

You sir, are an idiot.

Question: What is even the point of this? Why did you think this up? Did you want to start a debate for your own sick pleasure? Do you enjoy insulting people? Some people spend a lot of their times focusing on racing. If you dont want to believe it is a sport, believe that. We all know the truth of the matter. If he wants to talk trash, let him. Im not going to let it rile me up, because of the fact that he is just some person trying to get peoples danders up. He is just some person who gets paid to be an ass. Oh well. Im over it.

I was reading this and I was thinking… “how stupid is this?” So bad in fact that I could not even finish reading all the posts.

Bottom line is this: The writer can believe whatever he wants to believe that’s why we live in America. I don’t however he needs to imposse his beliefs on the rest of society. I happen to love NASCAR and I think golf is a stupid sport but what the hey… I’m not gonna get my undies in a bundle just because my mother happens to love it. And I’m certianly NOT going to write off family and friends over some stupid belief. If that’s the kind of friend the writer is then I’m glad I don’t have friends like him. I have tons of friends and we don’t always agree but good grief it doesn’t mean they are “dead” to me.

On the NASCAR “family” I have never seen a group of people in all my life that is as supportive and giving as the NASCAR family. Even if you hate the other persons favorite driver or you are on a competitive team when the time comes to pull together they do. I”m glad I have my NASCAR family…I wouldn’t have it any other way.

But to the writer… seriously dude…. just because you and your friend have a difference of openion does not mean he should be “dead” to you. Have your ideas and beliefs and let the rest of have ours without you trying so hard to “prove” us wrong…. move on… let it go…. have a drink… and learn to relax a little.

This article really got under my skin. I drive a super late model race car on pavement, here in Wisconsin. This car has over 500 horsepower, sits 4 inches off the ground, weighs 2800 pounds and is capable of killing you in the blink of an eye. We race inches apart, at speeds the average person will never reach in there lifetime. Then we apply the brakes and turn the car left, all inches (or even rubbing) from the car in front of, behind or next to you. This takes great skill, coordination, and courage. They say racing is the only real sport, because tennis, golf, football, basketball, soccer, all of the stick and ball sports only take one ball, racing takes two. I listen to fans in the stands when I am a spectator and they think it is soooooooo easy to do. Well, let my tell you, it’s not. All I can say to the author of this article is, don’t go to NASCAR race. Get a set of balls and come up here to Wisconsin and get in my car and try to turn lap times within 2 seconds of mine.. Then imagine 23 other cars out there trying to beat you. If race car drivers aren’t atheletes, then nobody is. The mental capacity required to drive a race car is beyond any other sport. The other sports you mention are not life a true threat to your life. Yes accidents do occasionally happen in football, hockey ect., but no place else do the atheletes put there lives on the line like race car drivers. I think you are the kind of person that fears NASCAR and the fans it has. You are afraid that your almight stick and ball sports will take a back seat to the might NASCAR. Honestly, I am not a NASCAR fan, I would rather go race myself or spectate at the local short track. If you are afraid to come up and drive my car, go to any of the driving experiences throughout the country and try it out, your opinion will change. Or if you want, turn up the heat in your car to max, close the windows (on a 90 degree afternoon), go down the highway at 180mph, then try to traverse that tight curve in the rode, now, go back and do it 500 times in 3 hours, take an asprin and call me in the morning (if you didn’t kill yourself first).

Lizz- What’s the point of this? I think the point is NASCAR’s growing popularity and the fact that traditional stereotypes just aren’t true. The other point is the point that I don’t believe NASCAR is a sport because its not entirely human operated and human powered and it doesn’t take a great deal of athletic ability (it does take ability though, don’t get me wrong). I don’t say stuff just to mess with people or get a reaction, I don’t write that way.

Gina- I didn’t write off my friend, it was a sarcastic remark. I know plenty of NASCAR fans and honestly, what someone likes isn’t worth ending a friendship over. That would be pretty sad If i did end the friendship. And don’t worry about me having a drink and relaxing a little, I think I cover that area pretty efficiently

I don’t mean to tear down anyones likes or dislikes, I definitely respect NASCAR and its fan base. They are a loyal bunch. I appreciate the physical and mental demands put on drivers and I understand the risk, but just because its a life threatening activity DOESNT make it a sport.

I just don’t think its a sport because it doesnt take a great deal of athletic ability and because it isn’t entirely human operated and human powered. I wouldn’t call horse racing or fishing a sport either.

That being said, I’m not holding any illusion that I could get in a car and do what they do. Its something I’d like to do sometime, because I’m sure its pretty cool. I’m going to do the whole NASCAR thing and I’m more than likely going to take in the action at a few smaller tracks.

Mark:
You’re article made me laugh. It is as intelligent as someone saying that smoking doesn’t kill because there is not death certificate with smoking as the cause of death.
The physical condition that these drivers need to be in is incredible. If weight lifting is a considered a sport, well, then the drivers alone on that aspect should be considered athletes. They are in GREAT physical shape, which is required to be in one of those vehicles.
If you think that is is not a sport because it is not physically demanding, then why is golf a sport??? A big ol’ fat guy can be as good of a golfer as a skinny one!! Don’t ya think??
Your analysis of racing is old school - your opinion is okay to portray as long as your facts and basis are accurate and and true. My belief of your article is that you have a very uneducated opinion and have wasted alot of people’s time and raised people blood pressure unnecessarily. Too bad for you because it makes you look like an ass.
P.S. I have been a Nascar Fan since the 1970’s and I have a college education (yes, employed full-time in my studied field) and all of my natural teeth with no cavities…..

If you consider things like weightlifting and paintball to be a sport, then yes, NASCAR is too.

I know I keep saying this but I understand the physical demands and mental demands put on drivers in a race. I also appreciate the risk they face everytime they get behind the wheel.

That being said, if NASCAR takes so much athletic ability, who wins in a pickup basketball game- Jeff Gordon or Chad Johnson?

The biggest reason NASCAR isn’t a sport? The car does most of the work. If it isnt entirely human operated and powered, then its not a sport- Sorry horse racing

Since you brought up the comparison of Jeff Gordon and Chad Johnson, I’ll use them even though Jeff is not my favorite driver. You put Jeff and Chad in the exact same car with the exact same setup on a closed street and tell them to race, who would win. That argument is bogus. Of course a basketball player will beat a racecar driver in a game of basketball…duh it takes a college degree to figure that out for ya huh.

Im sorry but you are blatently wrong on the car doing all the work or most of the work. Humans have to build it, maintain it, set it up to run fast and above all handle the thing on the track. It is powered by humans…with out a human it wouldn’t go.

And by the way you are right on NASCAR not being a sport…it is a sanctioning body just like the NBA, PGA, and NFL….However Auto racing is most definately a sport and is for 99.9 % of Americans

Doesn’t require athletic ability? How can you be more stupid? You need a lot of speed in order to get your foot from the gas to the break in a matter of 10ths of a second. The speeds the drivers are going are enough to drive anyone crazy, but they stay calm. I think that is a skill. If you mess up in most sports, such as basketball or baseball, your team may lose or someone may sprain something, but in Auto racing if you mess up someone could get seriously hurt, or even killed. So in this case you need a lot of agility to be able to act fast so nobody is seriously hit. I ask you this. Would you rather be hit by a football/basketball, or a race car?

First, I reply to everyone who sends me an email or original thought, Im not the kind of guy who just hides from people and lays on the delete key. That being said, to those of you who leave phony email addresses, it’s very big of you to send me an expletive filled message and run.

Anyway
racer-26- your whole post is so factually errant that I don’t know where to start. You are right with one thing, the argument that a basketball player would beat a racer in a basketball game is pretty weak. However, to point out the blatantly obvious, Chad Johnson is a football player. It didn’t take me a college degree to figure it out either.

As far as the person doing most of the work, you have got to be kidding me. There is only one scenario in which a racecar is human powered, and that would be if it was the same type of car from the flintstones, where to start it you have to pick it up and start running in place.

Jon- I would love to see the short distance shuttle speeds of a group of racecar drivers, football players, basketball players, and baseball players. I would bet that the racecar drivers would be in last.

I agree with you that the ability to stay calm in those situations is a skill, but that doesn’t make it athletic ability. Neither does the risk factor, or then you have to consider daredevils like Evel Knievel to be athletes.

Would I rather be hit by a football, basketball, or racecar? I’d say football, but I don’t see what that has to do with anything.

Would you rather be hit with a racecar, a football, or a wrecking ball? No matter what you’re answer, I’m not going to try and argue that if you said “Wrecking ball” that construction would be a sport.

hey man you no how bad of a low life you are saying that nascar is not a sport @!@

Hey dude in almost any jock sport it only takes “one ball” to participate, in NASCAR it takes TWO BALLS and it sad that you don’t have any! Since you don’t have any balls pull your jock out of your ass, clear your mind and look again. NASCAR IS A SPORT!!!!

I drive a NASCAR Late Model at the LaCrosse Fairgrounds speedway in West Salem, WI. Driving these cars is 100% different than anyone would suspect. I have been a racing fan (not just NASCAR) my whole life and when I got behind the wheel for the first time this year, I was completely shocked at how physically demanding it is. Until you have actually driven a race car at full speed, I don’t think you can appreciate what it takes. I know that I can’t fully appreciate what getting hit by Brian Urlacher would be like or what standing at the plate for a Randy Johnson fast ball are like because I have never experienced those. Playing video games is not a sport because all you do is sit there. Sitting in a car going down the freeway for 4 hours is easy and not physically challenging.

When I go into the corners, I am experiencing at least 2 g’s, mostly because I am one of the slower drivers out there and the track doesn’t allow for really high speeds. I will reach close to 120 mph at the end of the straights and use all of my strength to make the car turn. There is no power steering, so however I move the wheel, that is how the front wheels turn. That also means that all of the energy to make the car turn around while slowing from 120 to about 80 relies solely on my upper body. All of the forces that are going through the car and what my body instinctively does push me in a direction opposite of what I have to turn the car.

As far as comparing athletes from different sports in the same event, of course racecar drivers are going to finish last in some. But in some events baseball players will finish last and in others football players will finish last. Different athletes work out different parts of their bodies depending on what they do.

Baseball is a lot of standing around. The players sit in the dugout until they are on deck, then they swing the bat a couple of times, go up to bat, swing it a few more times and either run to first or walk back to the dugout. Then in the field, besides the pitcher and catcher, the players just wait for the ball to come their way. You say their endurance comes from playing almost every day. Professional racecar drivers are on the track almost every day, either racing, practicing, or testing. Ken Schrader from the Nextel Cup Series has raced in almost 200 different races in one year.
Once again I don’t think anyone can fully appreciate something unless they actually do it, even if they think they can.

Al-

You make a lot of good points, but what competition would the NASCAR driver come in first at?

I agree that there is a lot of downtime in baseball, but players don’t get to the pros without a ridiculous amount of athletic ability.

I respect all NASCAR drivers for their abilities, but I don’t think that you can argue that it isn’t entirely human operated and powered. I also don’t believe they have near the athletic ability that players in the big 3 have. JMO

Mark- I read your article with tongue in cheek as I am sure that you wrote it. I found it very amusing. I am a Nascar fan and was not offended by your belief that it is not a sport. I believe that it is and that the drivers are athletes. While they don’t have the same skills as a baseball player or football player driving a race car (successfully) does require a set of physical and mental capabilities equal in number to atheltes in other venues. As a spectator I get just as excited watching the final laps of a race where strategy, physical prowess and skill come in to play, as watching the last thrity seconds of a close 12 round heavy-weight boxing match or the final inning of a close baseball game, etc….

It appears that it is an equally impossible task for anyone posting here to convince you that auto racing is a sport and that it’s particpants are athletes at their core just as it would be for you to convince us otherwise. So…….

I do look forward to your future piece on your visit to a Nascar race. I agree with several other posters who suggested you attend some races at a local track. It is much easier to get the “full flavor” of auto racing in that venue. Afterwards you can walk through the pits and talk with the “driver athletes” and their pit crews. (Something you can’t do at a Nascar race, much like a professional football game or basketball game) Then move on to a Nascar race. You’ll have to post a picture of yourself dawning your favorite driver’s hat. :)

hey every one, maby when mark grows himself some BALLS then he might be able to see how great of a sport this really is !!!!

To quote you Mark: You make a lot of good points, but what competition would the NASCAR driver come in first at? Have you not heard of the Nextel Cup Championship? Drivers have to compete and do the best they can every week to stay in the chase. Just like football, baseball and basketball, you have to go out to win every time. That’s what these drivers are out there for….the Championship.

Kyle- Are you insinuating that girls cannot believe NASCAR is a sport due to their genitalia?
Pretty sexist if you ask me.

Stacy- the competition remark was referring to a group of athletes, drivers included, doing competitions like short distance shuttle runs and other things to test their athletic ability, not any one sport. I’m aware of the Nextel Cup and wasn’t trying to say they are out there racing for nothing.

Mary- I will be writing some more pieces about it when I make the trip north to take in the local scene. I do have one question for you, do I go to the NASCAR race first or visit the local tracks first?

Also, I am willing to listen to any well formed argument. I’ve laid out where I stand, as far as comparable athletic ability, and more importantly, with the fact that its not entirely human operated and powered. I welcome any argument, and maybe I can be proven wrong, just please come with something stronger than “Mark needs to grow balls” or “sports require one ball, NASCAR requires two”.

Thanks all for the responses

um, no i`m saying when YOU become a man then you might see how good it is

Mark- I suggest that you visit local tracks first. While attending a Nextel Cup race is loads of fun you can get closer to the action at a local track, see a variety of different automobile classes and “driver athletes” of varying skill levels racing in different divisions. Plus you can actually talk to most of them and their crews in the pits afterwards.

I don’t really understand the opinion that a sport has to be completely human operated for the particpant to be considered an athlete. I don’t intend to open a whole new can of worms here and I hope I don’t offend anyone…but …would you consider bowlers to be athletes? Bowling requires physical skill, dexterity and stamina but the participants can stop for a smoke break, drink a beer or eat a hoagie during competition. And they require the assistance of a non-human object that being the ball to score points. Without the use of a basketball, football, tennis ball, club and golf ball sports like football, etc…wouldn’t be possible either. But we all readily agree that those competitiors are athletes. The use of a race car to win points is similar to the use of other athletes equipiment in the field of play. If the sole criteria for a sporting participant to be called an athlete is that the competition be completely human operated then it would seem in it’s purest form the only true athletes would be wrestlers?

Know what I think…. I think we should all just stop talking to this guy. Everyone just stop posting and leave him alone. He’s only feeding on us… getting us all upset for his own entertainment…. so let’s just not let that happen. What do ya say?

Boy-oh-boy Mark, seems you really ruffled some feathers with your article. I am also involved in the sport of nascar. I am a crew member for a nascar team here at La Crosse, WI. The same place that Albert, who posted to you earlier, races. I would welcome you with open arms to come spend a night in the pits with our race team. This way you can see first-hand how difficult it is to race a competitive piece of machinery.
I have been in this sport for quite a few years and can attest to the athletic ability of the drivers AND the crew members. It is no easy task to not only make the car do what you need it to, but to drive the thing the way it is meant to be driven. Can anyone sit in one of these cars and drive it? Yes. Can anyone sit in the car and make it perform to the best of it,s ability? Hell no.
You have every right to say how you feel, and I have defended your right to do so. But to make statements without first-hand knowledge of what you are saying, seems a bit off track to me. So, in closing, I invite you to go to a local racing facility(or come to ours) and see for yourself just what kind of athletcism it really takes to be involved in the sport we know and love. Then go to a Cup race. I truely think you will get more of an appreciation for us from a local track.
Nascar not a sport? Come see and THEN make your call. Thanks for listening, Mark.

Thanks all for the responses.

Kyle- I think you missed the point

MMQC- I welcome any logical argument with open arms. To me, the difference between the whole human operated and powered thing in racing and bowling is that its human muscular energy that makes the ball move. I know it takes energy to make the car go, but it is a machine, and its not human powered at all. It’s human energy that makes that a basketball go through the air, its human energy to catch it, its not human energy to have something else catch it. NASCAR can be considered a sport, but not without the consequence of adding other things like paintball to be considered sports as well. JMO

Gina- I didn’t write this to upset people or to manipulate them for my own desire. I would be one sick individual to do this for my own entertainment. I’m not like other writers, I don’t write crap just to get a reaction. I stand by what I write.

Mikey- I understand the ability to takes for a race to come together, but another thing I have a problem with is that (now I could be wrong here, I honestly don’t know) it seems like you could have the best driver in the world, and he could have the best day of his life driving, but he could still do poorly because of a technical breakdown or a problem with the car. I don’t know if there’s anything similar in other sports, but I couldn’t come up with any examples.

I think I’m going to do my damndest to come up to Lacrosse and do a story, so drop me an email sometime and stay in touch in case I can make it work. I would like to take in a race in the pits. Email me sometime
[email protected]

A technical break down for a football player could be - say - a broken leg….
I am here to say that I would love to see you, Mark, and say, Tony Stewart or Ryan Neuman in a boxing match - now - hmm….who’d be the athlete then??? (after all - beating the crap out of someone in a boxing ring is considered a sport, right???)
I have riden and driven in a race car myself - go to La Crosse - you’ll have a twist of heart.

I have played varcity football against teams that have won the state title 4-5 years running, i also work on a race team at lacrosse. Working on the car is alot harder and more demanding than playing football. When you play football, you get around 25 seconds to rest for less than 10 seconds of playing time. In racing you get about 0 seconds of rest for every 5 hours of race time. with that said, how can MOTORSPORTS be any less of a sport than any other.

Mark said “I welcome any logical argument with open arms. To me, the difference between the whole human operated and powered thing in racing and bowling is that its human muscular energy that makes the ball move. I know it takes energy to make the car go, but it is a machine, and its not human powered at all. It’s human energy that makes that a basketball go through the air, its human energy to catch it, its not human energy to have something else catch it.”

Not sure what you meant by that last line. I do take offense in the same way every other fan on this board has. You state nascar is not a sport because the motor does the work and the driver does not exert human energy to succeed. I guess you could line up 43 cars without drivers and turn ‘em loose but I really don’t think you would have the same results. I’m pretty sure it takes human energy to make the car drive the proper line to be the fastest. Many have attempted to inform you of the great physical demands that Nascar has and to me if something is physically demanding then it would seem locial to assume that they are exerting human energy to get a result. I really wish you would take those guys up on their offer to turn a few laps in their cars. So many Nascar drivers are atheletes in many other sports, I would deffinately say they could beat out other atheletes at their own games. I too would love to see a celebrity game where other atheletes as well as nascar drivers go up against each other in varying events. I think…no I’m sure you would be surprised at the way the drivers would perform.